Passing for Black
by Wade Hall
Chat with Author Wade Hall
Log file opened at: 3/24/99 9:27:59 PM
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<chelak> How is everyone tonight? Our guest is getting
ready to join us.
<jc> Still haven't gotten over the Cats losing ...
:-(
<chelak> :-(... i understand jc
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<chelak> we will wait a few more minutes to see if we get
more chatters. Mr. Hall is here... we're trying to get ready now.
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<chelak> He is talking.. coming to the computer now.
<chelak> Our guest tonight is oral historian Wade Hall.
Dr. Hall is professor emeritus of English at Bellarmine College in
Louisville. In addition to his biography, "Passing for Black: The Life and
Careers of Mae Street Kidd," Dr. Hall wrote "Hell-Bent for Music: The Life
of Pee Wee King."
<chelak> Does anyone have a question?
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<Wade_Hall> Hello, does anyone have a
question for me about "Passing for Black" or how I write oral biographies
or anything else?
<jessamine> hello, Wade, I have lots of questions for you,
but first I want to know about Pee Wee King
<jc> What kind of tape recorder did you use when
interviewing Mae Street Kidd? Did you operate it yourself?
<Wade_Hall> What do you want to know about
Pee Wee? I talked with his wife Lydia a week or so ago in Louisville, and
he's not doing too well.
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<Frog> Mr. Hall, Besides you're wonderful oral
biographies, what other writing styles have you explored?
<Wade_Hall> He looks good but has
Alzheimer's disease and doesn't always know people who visit him.
<Wade_Hall> Hey Frog, well, my dissertation
at the University of Illinois was on humor and was published in the 1960s
as "The Smiling Phoenix." In that book I tried to do an historical study
to show how the South survived defeat partly through a great sense of
humor.
<Wade_Hall> I also write poetry from time to
time, and for the last 30 years have written a log of book reviews for The
Courier-Journal and The (Lexington) Herald-Leader, as well as for scholarly
and historical publications.
<Wade_Hall> Hey JC, I used a portable tape
recorder and I talked with her in her kitchen at her home on Chestnut
Street in downtown Louisville.
<chelak> Dr. Hall, did you know Mae Street Kidd before
working with her on the biography?
<Wade_Hall> Well, Chelak, I knew who she was,
of course, but I didn't know much about her personally. I knew the
outlines of her creer as a businesswoman and state legislator but I didn't
really know her as well as I've know other people that I've done oral
biographies on, sch as Wilson Wyatt, Harlan Hubbard, Lyman Johnson and a
large number of people
<jessamine> Are there other Kentukians you would like to do
oral histories on?
<Wade_Hall> from my home community in
Alabama, where I grew up.
<Henry> At her advanced age, was it difficult doing the
interviews with her?
<Wade_Hall> Well, Jessamine, the answer is
yes; but they are very time-consuming
<Wade_Hall> and I have several other projects
I'm committed to--such as an anthology
<Dave> Is it easier to write about someone you know fairly well, or someone such as Ms. Kidd who you didn't really know going into it?
<Wade_Hall> of Kentucky writing which will be
published by the University Press of Kentucky here in Lexington.
<jc> I asked a friend of mine in Louisville about Mae
Street Kidd, and he said "Don't believe a word that woman has to say." Do
you think she was telling the truth -- the whole truth -- in her interviews
with you?
<Wade_Hall> No, Henry, I don't think it was
any more difficult that it would have been when she was younger because she
was/is a spirited woman, an independent woman who speaks her mind. But
actually that's part of what attracted me to her as a subject.
<Wade_Hall> Dave, That's a very good
question. The oral history I've done on my home community in Alabama is
about people--now mostly dead--whom I have known all my life. It was kind
of hard to interview, say, my mother. After all, I was asking her about
intimatedetails of her life; but I must say she answered them
truthfully--or so it seemed to me.
<DancesWith> I'm curious about the process of writing oral
bios. Do you do all the interviews, then all the editing/shaping, or do you
go back and do more interviews to flesh things out as you write?
<Wade_Hall> On the other hand, there are
advantages to starting with a clean
<Dave> I can see where that could be a bit
uncomfortable -- for each of you!
<Wade_Hall> sheet and doing a book on
someone you know little about.
<Henry> Of all the genres you've tried, where does the
oral history fall...and what is your favorite style of writing?
<Wade_Hall> details of her life; but I must
say she answered them truthfully--or so it seemed to me.
<Wade_Hall> JC, I know the stories about
Mrs. Kidd, but I think I got the truth from her. I would, for example,
ask her the same or similar questions several days apart; and it served as
a check to see if she were trying to tell something that was untrue.
<Wade_Hall> Of course, everyone wants himself
or herself to look good, especially in print because we know that a book
is about as permanent memorial as any of us are likely to get.
<Wade_Hall> Dances: I try to cover all bases
when I do my series of interviews, but I sometimes go back and ask for
<jc> What about your book, 'American Letters'? Is it
still in the works?
<Wade_Hall> clarification and extensions of
comments on certain sections.
<Wade_Hall> An important part of the process
I use is that I read the completed manuscript back to the subject and he
or she
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<Wade_Hall> has the opportunity to correct,
modify or extend anything in the book.
<Wade_Hall> Henry, I like all the genres
because each one has its own unique way of providing a form for the truth
as I see it-- whether it is poetry or essay or short story or
biography
<jessamine> Would you tell us what books you are reading
right now -- for pleasure.
<Wade_Hall> or oral biography, which I see as
a new kind of life-writing made possible by the tape recorder.
<Wade_Hall> JC, I collect American letters
and diaries, and one of my
<jc> Do you think you could do an oral history on
video? How much editing skill would the producer need, do you think?
<Wade_Hall> later projects is to do a
collection selected from those manuscript items and show how they reflect
American history and heritage. But that project will have to wait a
while. The letters and diaries will eventually be in a library where other
historicans and biographers and creative writers can use them.
<Wade_Hall> jessamine, The book I'm now
reading is a new book by Dianne
<Henry> Is the oral biography a learned skill? Or is it
simply a transcribed interview into a book?
<Wade_Hall> Aprile, a Courier-Journal
columnist, about the 150th anniversary of the founding of the Abbey of
Gethsemani near Bardstown. I will review it for The Courier-Journal in a
week or so. I read a lot of articles and books of recent vintage about the
Civil War, which is my favorite period of American history.
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<Wade_Hall> JC, Yes, I think it could be
done, but it would be more difficult. The author couldn't be as
"creative" in putting such a biography together. You would be more bound
by what the subject actually said. I think a video biography is a more
viable type--in which you interview several people and put their comments
in with the subject's.
<Wade_Hall> Henry, As I have said
frequently, no one speaks a book, regardless of how eloquent he/she is.
That's why I say that the life is Mrs. Kidd's or Mr. Johnson's or Mr.
King's but the book is mine. I put it together in the voice of the
subject, using most, but not all, of the subject's words.
<DancesWith> How long does the writing (as opposed to the
interviewing) take?
<Wade_Hall> So a transcribed interview would
be a very bad book. It would be filled with false starts, endless
repetitions and irrelevancies.
<Wade_Hall> Dances: The writing and
rewriting and rewriting takes much, much longer than the making of the
tapes. I usually spend at least
<jc> What about the people you interviewed on your
show with Channel 15 in Louisville? Will any of those shows be rebroadcast
on the statewide network?
<Wade_Hall> 30 or 40 hours making tapes with
my subjects for a full-length book, but the actual composing of the book
may take a year or more.
<Wade_Hall> JC, Glad you asked. Call KET
and tell them they should!! Just kidding. I think those inteviews will
become more valuable in the future. I plan to have copies deposited in
the library at the University of Kentucky.
<jessamine> Do you have techniques (which you'd like to
share) to get people talking?
<Wade_Hall> Jess: I haven't found that I have
to prod people to talk about themselves!
<Wade_Hall> I have yet to meet a
person--regardless of how shy he/she is--who can't
<jc> Do you still consider yourself a Kentucky
Author, but an Alabama writer?
<Wade_Hall> talk about himself until the cows
come home.....
<Wade_Hall> Well, JC, I have a split
personality. Most of my writing has been about Kentucky, except for my
poetry. Most of my poems deal in some way with my formative years
growing up in Alabama. I think that's perhaps natural because poetry is a
much more personal genre, and the first years of a person's life are the
most important. They make you really who you are--and that's what poetry
gets at....
<jc> Do you think the 'electronic community' offers
the potential for the kind of 'place' that has been so important in the
work of regional authors? Can the Internet create 'regions' in that sense?
<Wade_Hall> JC, I don't think anyone
"lives" on the Internet. You live in E'town or Bowling Green or Louisville
or Paris (Kentucky, that is), even though you may be wired to the world.
So I think one's sense of place will continue to be what he sees when he
gets up from his computer and walks into the kitchen and out the back
door into the yard or down the street or drives out to Winn-Dixie.
These, to me, are the real things still.
<jc> Are young people these days interested in such
geographic identification?
<Wade_Hall> Hey Slug, do you have a question?
<Wade_Hall> JC, I think young people are
still aware of where they live or
<Frog> Will you be involved in the opening of the new
history center in any way?
<Wade_Hall> the importance of regionalisms.
My nieces and nephews in Alabama still
<DancesWith> I saw in the online interview here that Mae
Street Kidd thinks your book should be a movie. So who would you cast as
her? :)
<Wade_Hall> have an accent, even though they
go to movies, watch TV or are wired to the Internet.
<Wade_Hall> Frog, Yes, I plan to attend
one of the openings. I've been invited to go to the black tie opening,
but I don't know whether I want to spend that kind of money for 3 hours of
wear! I have written a short script for the opening weeks, based on the
memoirs of an Adair County pioneer named Daniel Trabue. I have also
given the history center a number of items for their exhibits.
<Wade_Hall> It will be state-of-the-art, a
museum that all Kentuckians can be proud of. You must go.
<jessamine> Dr. Hall, where do you find all the letters,
diaries, folk art, quilts -- can you recommend some really great places for
yard sales, or antique malls?
<Wade_Hall> Dances: WEll, Mae would have
liked herself; but, alas, she's too sick.
<Wade_Hall> We would have to have several
actors playing her at different ages. The actress would have to be very
attractive and strong.
<Wade_Hall> Whom do you suggest?
<jc> Did you ever meet Thomas Merton? If so, what
did/do you think of him?
<Wade_Hall> Jess: I find stuff for my
collections everywhere--yard sales, estate sales, flea markets, stamp
shows. I even have friends who bring me stuff from trash cans. One
friend used to live in Santa Monica, CA and he would raid the trash cans
of the
<Henry> Are you currently working on an oral history,
and if not, who would you like your next subject to be?
<Wade_Hall> stars and he obtained incredible
things--from letters by Presidents to those from famous movie stars.
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<Wade_Hall> JC, Unfortunately, I came to
Bellarmine a few months after Merton died, but I do know a number of monks
who studied under him as novices at Gethsemani; and a couple of years ago I
chaired a "Monks Panel" at Bellarmine of some of these people who shared
their memories of him. Many of the Bellarmine faculty--the
oldtimers--knew him personally. I have also spent a weekend at
Gethsemani--and I'm not even Catholic! Still it was a blessing to me.
<Wade_Hall> Henry, I'm completing a short
(about 60-70 pp.) oral biography based on interviews I did with a young
man who died of AIDS last fall. I got to
<Frog> I can't think of her name, but the actress who
played Tina Turner whould play Mae well.
<Wade_Hall> know him through a "Buddy System" and he asked me "to tell his story" after he died. So that's what I'm doing.
<Wade_Hall> Frog, I can't think of her,
but what about Tina Turner herself?
<Wade_Hall> Whitney Houston?
<DancesWith> Angela Bassett, yeah. Or maybe Faye Dunaway. Or
Lena Horne.
<jc> What about Jesse Stuart? What was it about him
that made you two get along so well?
<Wade_Hall> Lena Horne would be great to play
her at an old age.
<Wade_Hall> JC, Jesse Stuart was my
favorite Kentucky writer. That doesn't mean that I think he was
Kentucky's best (Robert Penn Warren would take those laurels) but he was
the best man I've known who was also a writer.
<jc> If 'Passing' were the first book of yours I'd
read, which one would you recommend I read next?
<Wade_Hall> By the way, I met Jesse when I
was a young instructor at the University of Florida, and he had come down
to do a reading and a talk to the students. I drove over to Jacksonville
to pick him up. We bonded immediately, and we were friends until his
death.
<Wade_Hall> JC, It depends upon your
interests. If you like American popular music, especially country, you
might like the Pee Wee King book.
<Wade_Hall> The book I did on Harlan Hubbard
is short, but one of my favorites.
<jc> Thanks, Dr. Hall. It's been a treat!
<DancesWith> Yes, thank you!
<Wade_Hall> Thanks to all of you. You've
been a great chat group! Now read all my books!!!!
<jessamine> Dr. Hall, thanks so much for sharing your ideas
with us tonight. I really appreciate the way you value your subjects and
repect their words and lives.
<Wade_Hall> Jess: I would never do a book on
a person I didn't like.
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<chelak> Thank you Dr. Hall. Good night everyone.
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<Wade_Hall> Slug: Do you have a final
comment?
<Wade_Hall> What about you Dave and Jerry and
Frog?
<Frog> Thanks so much, this was great fun.
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Log file closed at: 3/24/99 10:40:24 PM
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