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Debating Charter Schools

Bill and his guests discuss charter schools. Guests: Kentucky Education and Workforce Development Cabinet Secretary Hal Heiner; Kentucky Senate Minority Caucus Chair Gerald Neal, D-Louisville; Jim Waters, president of the Bluegrass Institute for Public Policy Solutions; and Tom Shelton, executive director of the Kentucky Association of School Superintendents.
Season 24 Episode 4 Length 56:33 Premiere: 12/05/16

About

Kentucky Tonight

KET’s Kentucky Tonight, hosted by Renee Shaw, brings together an expert panel for in-depth analysis of major issues facing the Commonwealth.

This weekly program features comprehensive discussions with lawmakers, stakeholders and policy leaders that are moderated by award-winning journalist Renee Shaw.

For nearly three decades, Kentucky Tonight has been a source for complete and balanced coverage of the most urgent and important public affairs developments in the state of Kentucky.

Often aired live, viewers are encouraged to participate by submitting questions in real-time via email, Twitter or KET’s online form. Viewers with questions and comments may send an email to kytonight@ket.org or use the contact form. All messages should include first and last name and town or county. The phone number for viewer calls during the program is 800-494-7605.

After the broadcast, Kentucky Tonight programs are available on KET.org and via podcast (iTunes or Android). Files are normally accessible within 24 hours after the television broadcast.

Kentucky Tonight was awarded a 1997 regional Emmy by the Ohio Valley Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. The series was also honored with a 1995 regional Emmy nomination.

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Call 800-945-9167 or email shop@ket.org.


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Renee Shaw is the Director of Public Affairs and Moderator at KET, currently serving as host of KET’s weeknight public affairs program Kentucky Edition, the signature public policy discussion series Kentucky Tonight, the weekly interview series Connections, Election coverage and KET Forums.

Since 2001, Renee has been the producing force behind KET’s legislative coverage that has been recognized by the Kentucky Associated Press and the National Educational Telecommunications Association. Under her leadership, KET has expanded its portfolio of public affairs content to include a daily news and information program, Kentucky Supreme Court coverage, townhall-style forums, and multi-platform program initiatives around issues such as opioid addiction and youth mental health.  

Renee has also earned top awards from the Ohio Valley Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences (NATAS), with three regional Emmy awards. In 2023, she was inducted into the Silver Circle of the NATAS, one of the industry’s highest honors recognizing television professionals with distinguished service in broadcast journalism for 25 years or more.  

Already an inductee into the Kentucky Civil Rights Hall of Fame (2017), Renee expands her hall of fame status with induction into Western Kentucky University’s Hall of Distinguished Alumni in November of 2023.  

In February of 2023, Renee graced the front cover of Kentucky Living magazine with a centerfold story on her 25 years of service at KET and even longer commitment to public media journalism. 

In addition to honors from various educational, civic, and community organizations, Renee has earned top honors from the Associated Press and has twice been recognized by Mental Health America for her years-long dedication to examining issues of mental health and opioid addiction.  

In 2022, she was honored with Women Leading Kentucky’s Governor Martha Layne Collins Leadership Award recognizing her trailblazing path and inspiring dedication to elevating important issues across Kentucky.   

In 2018, she co-produced and moderated a 6-part series on youth mental health that was awarded first place in educational content by NETA, the National Educational Telecommunications Association. 

She has been honored by the AKA Beta Gamma Omega Chapter with a Coretta Scott King Spirit of Ivy Award; earned the state media award from the Kentucky Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution in 2019; named a Charles W. Anderson Laureate by the Kentucky Personnel Cabinet in 2019 honoring her significant contributions in addressing socio-economic issues; and was recognized as a “Kentucky Trailblazer” by the University of Kentucky Martin School of Public Policy and Administration during the Wendell H. Ford Lecture Series in 2019. That same year, Shaw was named by The Kentucky Gazette’s inaugural recognition of the 50 most notable women in Kentucky politics and government.  

Renee was bestowed the 2021 Berea College Service Award and was named “Unapologetic Woman of the Year” in 2021 by the Community Action Council.   

In 2015, she received the Green Dot Award for her coverage of domestic violence, sexual assault & human trafficking. In 2014, Renee was awarded the Anthony Lewis Media Award from the KY Department of Public Advocacy for her work on criminal justice reform. Two Kentucky governors, Republican Ernie Fletcher and Democrat Andy Beshear, have commissioned Renee as a Kentucky Colonel for noteworthy accomplishments and service to community, state, and nation.  

A former adjunct media writing professor at Georgetown College, Renee traveled to Cambodia in 2003 to help train emerging journalists on reporting on critical health issues as part of an exchange program at Western Kentucky University. And, she has enterprised stories for national media outlets, the PBS NewsHour and Public News Service.  

Shaw is a 2007 graduate of Leadership Kentucky, a board member of CASA of Lexington, and a longtime member of the Frankfort/Lexington Chapter of The Links Incorporated, an international, not-for-profit organization of women of color committed to volunteer service. She has served on the boards of the Kentucky Historical Society, Lexington Minority Business Expo, and the Board of Governors for the Ohio Valley Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. 

Host Renee Shaw smiling in a green dress with a KET set behind her.

Charter Schools and Kentucky’s Education Policy

As lawmakers prepare for the 2017 General Assembly session, a key education issue is expected to be at the top of the agenda for state Republicans: legislation to allow charter schools to operate in the commonwealth.

KET’s Kentucky Tonight explored the charter school issue with Kentucky Education and Workforce Development Cabinet Secretary Hal Heiner; Sen. Gerald Neal (D-Louisville), the Senate Minority Caucus Chair; Jim Waters, president of the Bluegrass Institute for Public Policy Solutions; and Tom Shelton, executive director of the Kentucky Association of School Superintendents.

What Is a Charter School?
“All charters schools are public schools. They’re open to all children, they do not charge tuition, and there are no special entrance requirements,” says Secretary Heiner. “It’s simply a parental choice school: they can choose school A or school B, whatever they feel meets the needs of their child.”

Heiner has advocated for charter schools for years in part because of his concerns that public schools are failing some poor and minority students who academically under-perform their peers. For example, test scores for schools in Jefferson and Fayette counties show that achievement gaps between white and black students in reading can reach 30 percentage points. That’s why Heiner says he thinks the state should try more specialized forms of education like charters to address these lingering academic disparities.

The secretary says charters in urban communities have proven successful at closing those gaps and helping students excel in math and reading. But he says the special schools can also benefit rural communities. Heiner says a charter could offer academic specialties that aren’t available in the local traditional schools because of insufficient funding. Once the academic gaps are filled, Heiner says students can achieve at the same level as their peers.

Charter opponents fear that those schools will drain already limited funding and resources away from traditional public schools. Heiner says the state’s education debate shouldn’t pit charters against traditional schools, but instead focus on providing as many options to students and parents as possible.

“It’s actually not giving up [on public schools],” says Heiner. “It brings a greater level of specialization in education across the state.”

Good and Bad Models
Achievement gaps are not a new issue for the commonwealth. In 2002, Sen. Neal sponsored legislation designed to begin closing the gaps, especially among minority students.

The Louisville Democrat says he doesn’t oppose charter schools outright. In fact he says he appreciates how charter school advocates have pushed the public education debate in the commonwealth.

“I think it’s good that they have challenged the public school system,” says Neal. “But I think that we should be very careful about… abandoning the public school system as we know it when we have the ability to make the adjustments [to traditional schools] that are necessary.”

Charter schools have been in existence for about 25 years and now operate in 43 states. As lawmakers consider allowing the schools in the commonwealth, Neal says they must pursue a model that will work for Kentuckians. He says he wants to see strict academic accountability and transparency requirements for charter school operators. He also wants provisions that respect teacher collective bargaining agreements, and that prevent charters from expelling students who under-perform.

“There are successful charter schools, there’s no question about that. But there are also failing charter schools and there’s no question about that,” says Neal. “We have to be very careful about how we undertake this to make sure that whatever is done, we do it so we have success.”

Neal says he also wants a democratic process that actively involves teachers, parents, and community leaders in the authorization and operation of charter schools.

Accountability for All
Tom Shelton of the Kentucky Association of School Superintendents says the commonwealth already has good a template for how charter schools could be operated. He points to the site-based decision making councils mandated for all public schools under the 1990 Kentucky Education Reform Act. He says similar councils should focus their efforts on helping charters meet that community’s specific needs.

“As superintendents, we believe the accountability should be with the school board and with the superintendent and with the administration of the school,” Shelton says, “and that councils truly should serve in an advisory capacity as opposed to a governance capacity.”

Because of persistent problems with reading and math scores among some students, Jim Waters, of the Bluegrass Institute for Public Policy Solution, contends the site-based councils have failed to help improve Kentucky schools. He says those councils would be more effective and schools would be more innovative if parents had the majority of votes instead of teachers and administrators.

Waters says accountability is an issue for all publicly-funded schools in the commonwealth. He questions why more than two dozen existing public schools that have been classified as low achieving for years, yet they are still allowed to operate.

“I would like to see some of that same accountability begin to be applied to a lot of the persistently failing schools that we have where the achievement gap and the opportunity gap is getting wider,” says Waters.

Authorizing Charters
Waters says the secret to a charter school’s success is the greater autonomy and flexibility in return for high standards of accountability. For example, he wants schools to be free of collective bargaining agreements so that teachers can spend more hours with their students.

The authorizing entity that approves a charter school application could be a local school district, a public university, or a separate state agency. But Waters says he prefers a process that takes charter school authorization above the fray of local politics. He says he’s troubled by how some local superintendents have failed to grant inter-district transfers for students seeking to switch to a nearby school that might better suit their needs. He contends that trend doesn’t bode well for having school districts authorize a charter that could compete with other local schools for students.

“We don’t want charter schools to be set up to fail,” says Waters. “We don’t want to limit who can authorize a charter school to the point … that we never have them created, and that’s a concern of ours.”

Shelton says it’s not enough for the authorizing entity to approve a charter application and allow a school to open. He says the authorizer must also be empowered to close a school that fails to meet its charter. He argues that the authorizing process should start with local boards of education while The Kentucky Board of Education would provide state-level accountability and oversight for charters.

Equal Opportunities for Traditional Schools
Shelton acknowledges that research shows charters can have a positive impact on students of color, those living in poverty, or children with special needs. He says charters should be non-profit operations, and any charter legislation should take into account the different needs of schools in large urban communities and smaller rural districts.

Charters can be totally new schools, or can be traditional schools that are taken over and managed as a charter, according to Shelton. He says existing traditional schools should have the same opportunities and options for flexibility to deal with their achievement gap problems as a new charter school would have. That could include expanding the academic calendar for traditional students.

“Kentucky has one of the shortest school calendars in the country: the average school district in this state has 176 days,” Shelton says. Charter schools “go much longer, not only longer days, they go more days per week, more days per year. So we’ve got to create opportunities where this can happen across the board for each and every kid.

Several existing public schools in Kentucky could serve as good models for charter operations, according to Shelton. He points to Lexington’s Carter G. Woodson Academy for at-risk males in grades 6 to 12; Carrollton’s iLead Academy, which provides career training for students with high math scores from Carroll, Gallatin, Henry, Owen, and Trimble counties; and Owensboro’s Innovation Academy that focuses on science, technology, engineering, math, and entrepreneurial skills.

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Season 24 Episodes

Economic Impact of Pension Changes

S24 E35 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 10/30/17

Public Pension Reform Proposal

S24 E34 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 10/23/17

Transportation Issues

S24 E33 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 10/16/17

Tax Policy: An Ongoing Debate

S24 E32 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 10/09/17

Debating Immigration Issues

S24 E31 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 10/02/17

Special Session on Pensions

S24 E30 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 09/11/17

Tort Law

S24 E29 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 08/28/17

More Debate on Public Pensions

S24 E28 Length 56:35 Premiere Date 08/14/17

More State Tax Reform Debate

S24 E27 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 07/31/17

U.S. Foreign Policy

S24 E26 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 07/24/17

National and State Politics

S24 E25 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 07/17/17

Workers' Compensation

S24 E24 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 07/10/17

State Tax Reform

S24 E23 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 06/26/17

School Choice and Tax-Credit Scholarships

S24 E22 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 06/19/17

Debating Federal Health Care Policy

S24 E21 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 06/12/17

Public Employee Pensions

S24 E20 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 06/07/17

Energy Policy in Kentucky

S24 E19 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 05/22/17

Prospects for Tax Reform

S24 E18 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 05/08/17

Trump's First 100 Days

S24 E17 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 05/03/17

Current Foreign Policy Issues

S24 E16 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 04/17/17

General Assembly Recap

S24 E15 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 04/12/17

Changes in Health Care Policy

S24 E14 Length 56:38 Premiere Date 03/27/17

2017 New Legislation

S24 E13 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 03/20/17

Issues from the General Assembly

S24 E12 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 02/27/17

Criminal Justice Legislation

S24 E11 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 02/20/17

Debating Medical Review Panels

S24 E10 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 02/06/17

Future of Affordable Care Act

S24 E9 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 01/30/17

K-12 Education

S24 E8 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 01/23/17

New Legislation in the 2017 General Assembly

S24 E7 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 01/09/17

Future of Political Parties

S24 E5 Length 55:43 Premiere Date 12/12/16

Debating Charter Schools

S24 E4 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 12/05/16

Debating State Tax Reform

S24 E3 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 11/21/16

Election 2016 Postmortem

S24 E2 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 11/14/16

Political Trends in the 2016 Election

S24 E1 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 11/07/16

See All Episodes

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