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Mass Shootings and Gun Laws

Host Renee Shaw and guests discuss mass shootings and the policy ideas in Washington addressing gun violence. Guests: Mark Bryant, executive director of the Gun Violence Archive; Edwin Nighbert, president of the League of Kentucky Sportsmen; Whitney Austin, executive director and co-founder of Whitney/Strong; and David Burnett, attorney, ICU nurse and firearms advocate.
Season 28 Episode 13 Length 56:33 Premiere: 04/26/21

About

Kentucky Tonight

KET’s Kentucky Tonight, hosted by Renee Shaw, brings together an expert panel for in-depth analysis of major issues facing the Commonwealth.

This weekly program features comprehensive discussions with lawmakers, stakeholders and policy leaders that are moderated by award-winning journalist Renee Shaw.

For nearly three decades, Kentucky Tonight has been a source for complete and balanced coverage of the most urgent and important public affairs developments in the state of Kentucky.

Often aired live, viewers are encouraged to participate by submitting questions in real-time via email, Twitter or KET’s online form. Viewers with questions and comments may send an email to kytonight@ket.org or use the contact form. All messages should include first and last name and town or county. The phone number for viewer calls during the program is 800-494-7605.

After the broadcast, Kentucky Tonight programs are available on KET.org and via podcast (iTunes or Android). Files are normally accessible within 24 hours after the television broadcast.

Kentucky Tonight was awarded a 1997 regional Emmy by the Ohio Valley Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. The series was also honored with a 1995 regional Emmy nomination.

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Renee Shaw is the Director of Public Affairs and Moderator at KET, currently serving as host of KET’s weeknight public affairs program Kentucky Edition, the signature public policy discussion series Kentucky Tonight, the weekly interview series Connections, Election coverage and KET Forums.

Since 2001, Renee has been the producing force behind KET’s legislative coverage that has been recognized by the Kentucky Associated Press and the National Educational Telecommunications Association. Under her leadership, KET has expanded its portfolio of public affairs content to include a daily news and information program, Kentucky Supreme Court coverage, townhall-style forums, and multi-platform program initiatives around issues such as opioid addiction and youth mental health.  

Renee has also earned top awards from the Ohio Valley Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences (NATAS), with three regional Emmy awards. In 2023, she was inducted into the Silver Circle of the NATAS, one of the industry’s highest honors recognizing television professionals with distinguished service in broadcast journalism for 25 years or more.  

Already an inductee into the Kentucky Civil Rights Hall of Fame (2017), Renee expands her hall of fame status with induction into Western Kentucky University’s Hall of Distinguished Alumni in November of 2023.  

In February of 2023, Renee graced the front cover of Kentucky Living magazine with a centerfold story on her 25 years of service at KET and even longer commitment to public media journalism. 

In addition to honors from various educational, civic, and community organizations, Renee has earned top honors from the Associated Press and has twice been recognized by Mental Health America for her years-long dedication to examining issues of mental health and opioid addiction.  

In 2022, she was honored with Women Leading Kentucky’s Governor Martha Layne Collins Leadership Award recognizing her trailblazing path and inspiring dedication to elevating important issues across Kentucky.   

In 2018, she co-produced and moderated a 6-part series on youth mental health that was awarded first place in educational content by NETA, the National Educational Telecommunications Association. 

She has been honored by the AKA Beta Gamma Omega Chapter with a Coretta Scott King Spirit of Ivy Award; earned the state media award from the Kentucky Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution in 2019; named a Charles W. Anderson Laureate by the Kentucky Personnel Cabinet in 2019 honoring her significant contributions in addressing socio-economic issues; and was recognized as a “Kentucky Trailblazer” by the University of Kentucky Martin School of Public Policy and Administration during the Wendell H. Ford Lecture Series in 2019. That same year, Shaw was named by The Kentucky Gazette’s inaugural recognition of the 50 most notable women in Kentucky politics and government.  

Renee was bestowed the 2021 Berea College Service Award and was named “Unapologetic Woman of the Year” in 2021 by the Community Action Council.   

In 2015, she received the Green Dot Award for her coverage of domestic violence, sexual assault & human trafficking. In 2014, Renee was awarded the Anthony Lewis Media Award from the KY Department of Public Advocacy for her work on criminal justice reform. Two Kentucky governors, Republican Ernie Fletcher and Democrat Andy Beshear, have commissioned Renee as a Kentucky Colonel for noteworthy accomplishments and service to community, state, and nation.  

A former adjunct media writing professor at Georgetown College, Renee traveled to Cambodia in 2003 to help train emerging journalists on reporting on critical health issues as part of an exchange program at Western Kentucky University. And, she has enterprised stories for national media outlets, the PBS NewsHour and Public News Service.  

Shaw is a 2007 graduate of Leadership Kentucky, a board member of CASA of Lexington, and a longtime member of the Frankfort/Lexington Chapter of The Links Incorporated, an international, not-for-profit organization of women of color committed to volunteer service. She has served on the boards of the Kentucky Historical Society, Lexington Minority Business Expo, and the Board of Governors for the Ohio Valley Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. 

Host Renee Shaw smiling in a green dress with a KET set behind her.

Advocates from Opposing Sides Debate a Contentious Social Issue

Even with the nation shut down and people staying home for much of last year because of the COVID-19 pandemic, mass shootings in America continued at a record pace.

According to the Gun Violence Archive, a Lexington-based website that tracks a range of criminal, accidental, defensive, and suicidal shootings nationwide, they year 2020 saw 610 mass shootings in which four or more people were wounded or killed. That total far exceeds the six previous years for which the archive has tracked such data.

For this year, the archive reports 169 mass shootings as of April 30, a pace of more than one a day. That number includes the April 15 shooting at a Federal Express facility in Indianapolis that killed 9 people and injured seven, as well as a Jan. 22 incident at a Covington, Ky., bar that left five people wounded.

“We believe that it’s important to look at entire picture and then let people draw their conclusions from that,” says Mark Bryant of the Gun Violence Archive, who is a gunowner himself. “Our number also ensures that you look at those that are injured.”

A Survivor Turns Advocate

Louisvillian Whitney Austin is a mass shooting survivor. The former Fifth Third Bank executive was walking into the company’s building in downtown Cincinnati on Sept. 6, 2018, when a gunman opened fire in the lobby.

“I was shot 12 times and not once did a bullet hit a major organ or artery,” says Austin. “I am a miracle.”

But four people did die that morning, including the shooter. The incident proved a turning point in Austin’s life. She left her banking job to cofound with her husband the non-profit organization Whitney/Strong to advocate for responsible firearm ownership and help prevent other people from being victims of gun violence. Austin says she won’t accept a fatalistic attitude that says nothing can be done to curb deaths and injuries by firearms in the United States.

“There is absolutely something we can do at the legislative level that won’t be burdensome on gunowners but will help reduce the levels of gun violence in this state,” she says.

For months Austin worked with Democrats and Republicans as well as those who own guns and those who don’t to develop a solution she calls crisis aversion and rights retention (CARR) orders. That’s a judicial process by which firearms would be temporarily removed from a gun owner in the throes of a mental health or substance abuse crisis. Austin says that individual would then receive the counseling or treatment they need.

“We don’t want people permanently separated from their firearm,” she says. “We want to get them help so they can get back to their firearm in a place in which it is safe.”

Beyond averting mass shootings, Austin says her proposal could save the lives of gun owners.

“Two out of three gun deaths are attributed to suicide,” she says, “and people don’t know that that disproportionately impacts older white males in the state of Kentucky.”

Austin’s proposal gained the bipartisan support of state Senators Paul Hornback (R-Shelbyville) and Morgan McGarvey (D-Louisville), who sponsored it as Senate Bill 229 in the 2021 General Assembly session. The legislation never made it out of committee.

A Question of Due-Process Rights

The CARR proposal is similar to extreme risk protective orders and so-called red flag laws to confiscate weapons from a gun owner deemed to be as risk of harming themselves or others. Austin says 20 states already have such measures, including Indiana and Illinois.

Critics contend these measures violate the rights of gun owners.

“You cannot have a right revoked without due process,” says David Burnett, a registered nurse, attorney, and firearms advocate in Lexington. “I’m very concerned that that process wouldn’t comply with 5th and 14th Amendments,” to the U.S. Constitution.

Although he’s treated shooting victims in intensive care, Burnett says ideas like CARR and red flag laws are too broad, and the criteria for having a firearm confiscated too vague.

“We shouldn’t have a solution that creates more harm than it purports to solve,” says Burnett. “Any law that would restrict the ownership of firearms, or the possession of firearms, or the acquisition of firearms has the capacity to do more damage than it does harm.”

Beyond due process issues, Burnett argues that emergency confiscation orders don’t always stop the shootings they are designed to prevent. For example, he says the shooter at the Federal Express facility in Indianapolis did have a gun seized by police, yet he was still able to purchase another weapon because of what Burnett describes as a deficiency in Indiana’s red flag process. Plus he says people who already have a felony conviction or an emergency protective order against them can’t legally own guns.

Austin says courts have consistently upheld red flag laws in the states that have them, and that any such proposal must have a high burden of proof to justify confiscating a firearm from a gun owner.

Strengthening the Background Check System

In his speech before Congress on April 28, President Joe Biden called on lawmakers to curb what he calls the epidemic of gun violence in America by reinstating a federal ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines and by strengthening background checks on gun buyers.

But even those actions, which polling indicates have broad public support, concern some gun owners.

“Any attempt to subvert or circumvent the 2nd Amendment is wrong,” says Edwin Nighbert, president of the League of Kentucky Sportsmen, which is the state affiliate of the National Rifle Association. “I think that we’ve restricted it way too much at this point in time.”

He contends the problem is not guns, but the people who use them. He says we need to better understand the societal issues that lead to gun violence. He also argues that since existing gun laws are not properly enforced, there’s no accurate data about the effectiveness of those regulations.

Nighbert faults red flag laws for setting up a situation where it’s one person’s word against the gunowner, and he says judges usually take the side of the potential victim. As for background checks, he says the existing system worked well until being swamped in recent years by a spike in guns sales. Now, he says the FBI is only able to do human-based processing of about half of the firearms transaction applications submitted to the agency.

Burnett says the problem with background checks is that people with criminal intent avoid them by making black-market purchases or by stealing weapons. He also fears that the law enforcement agencies conducting the checks might erroneously deny a gun sale to a law-abiding citizen who should be able to protect themselves.

“At the end of the day, when that system breaks down, as inevitably systems do, I don’t want to be left empty handed and having to play dead or hoping that the shooter is a bad shot,” says Burnett.

Austin says the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) operated by the FBI should be better funded and that the checks should be required for all gun purchases.

Mark Bryant of the Gun Violence Archive agrees that the background check system isn’t perfect. He says lawmakers should close a loophole that allows a gun sale to be proceed if the background check is not completed within three business days. They can also crack down on cash sales of guns at swap meets by sellers who aren’t federally licensed, or straw buyers who purchase a gun for someone who may be unable to legally own one.

As for the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which was written in the 18th century, Bryant says it’s time to update it to reflect 21st century realities.

“The 2nd amendment is not sacrosanct to where it cannot be changed,” he says.

Nighbert says the amendment was written to give Americans the ability to overthrow a tyrannical government, a situation he contends can exist today as much as it did in the 1700s. As a self-described expert marksman who owns “an arsenal of weapons,” Nighbert says he’s never had to pull a gun on another person. But he also says he wants to be prepared if martial law is declared.

“If there’s a compromise to be made that does not affect us and trade our rights for a little bit of freedom, then I’m for it,” says Nighbert. “But we do not and you cannot legislate morality.”

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S28 E38 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 12/13/21

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S28 E36 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 11/22/21

Trends in State and National Politics

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School Choice in the Commonwealth

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New Developments and the Unknowns of COVID-19

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COVID and the Classroom

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Remembering 9/11, 20 Years Later

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Kentucky's Response to COVID-19

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Discussing the Surge of COVID-19 Cases in Kentucky

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Fancy Farm Preview and State Politics

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Childcare Challenges

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The Urban-Rural Divide in Kentucky

S28 E22 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 07/12/21

Work Shifts: Kentucky's Labor Shortage and Hiring Challenges

S28 E21 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 06/28/21

Public Infrastructure: What Kentucky Needs

S28 E19 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 06/21/21

Debating Critical Race Theory

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Kentucky's Rebound From COVID-19

S28 E17 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 06/07/21

Jobs and the Economy

S28 E16 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 05/17/21

The Future of Policing in America

S28 E15 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 05/10/21

President Biden's First 100 Days

S28 E14 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 05/03/21

Mass Shootings and Gun Laws

S28 E13 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 04/26/21

Voting Rights and Election Laws

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The 2021 General Assembly: Debating Major Legislation

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Wrapping Up the 2021 General Assembly

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School Choice in Kentucky

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No-Knock Warrants

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Debating Legislative Priorities in the 2021 General Assembly

S28 E7 Length 56:35 Premiere Date 03/08/21

Proposed Legislation to Modify Kentucky Teachers' Pensions

S28 E6 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 02/22/21

Debating Historical Horse Racing Legislation

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New Lawmakers in the 2021 Kentucky General Assembly

S28 E4 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 02/01/21

A Nation Divided

S28 E3 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 01/18/21

Recapping the Start of the 2021 General Assembly

S28 E2 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 01/11/21

Previewing the 2021 General Assembly

S28 E1 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 01/04/21

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