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Police Reform Issues

Renee Shaw and guests discuss police reform issues. Guests include: Raymond Burse, general counsel for the Kentucky NAACP; Tracie Keesee, co-founder and senior vice president of Justice Initiatives for the Center for Policing Equity; Lawrence Weathers, police chief of the Lexington Police Department; and William Hunt, police chief of the Somerset Police Department.
Season 27 Episode 27 Length 56:36 Premiere: 06/29/20

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Kentucky Tonight

KET’s Kentucky Tonight, hosted by Renee Shaw, brings together an expert panel for in-depth analysis of major issues facing the Commonwealth.

This weekly program features comprehensive discussions with lawmakers, stakeholders and policy leaders that are moderated by award-winning journalist Renee Shaw.

For nearly three decades, Kentucky Tonight has been a source for complete and balanced coverage of the most urgent and important public affairs developments in the state of Kentucky.

Often aired live, viewers are encouraged to participate by submitting questions in real-time via email, Twitter or KET’s online form. Viewers with questions and comments may send an email to kytonight@ket.org or use the contact form. All messages should include first and last name and town or county. The phone number for viewer calls during the program is 800-494-7605.

After the broadcast, Kentucky Tonight programs are available on KET.org and via podcast (iTunes or Android). Files are normally accessible within 24 hours after the television broadcast.

Kentucky Tonight was awarded a 1997 regional Emmy by the Ohio Valley Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. The series was also honored with a 1995 regional Emmy nomination.

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Renee Shaw is the Director of Public Affairs and Moderator at KET, currently serving as host of KET’s weeknight public affairs program Kentucky Edition, the signature public policy discussion series Kentucky Tonight, the weekly interview series Connections, Election coverage and KET Forums.

Since 2001, Renee has been the producing force behind KET’s legislative coverage that has been recognized by the Kentucky Associated Press and the National Educational Telecommunications Association. Under her leadership, KET has expanded its portfolio of public affairs content to include a daily news and information program, Kentucky Supreme Court coverage, townhall-style forums, and multi-platform program initiatives around issues such as opioid addiction and youth mental health.  

Renee has also earned top awards from the Ohio Valley Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences (NATAS), with three regional Emmy awards. In 2023, she was inducted into the Silver Circle of the NATAS, one of the industry’s highest honors recognizing television professionals with distinguished service in broadcast journalism for 25 years or more.  

Already an inductee into the Kentucky Civil Rights Hall of Fame (2017), Renee expands her hall of fame status with induction into Western Kentucky University’s Hall of Distinguished Alumni in November of 2023.  

In February of 2023, Renee graced the front cover of Kentucky Living magazine with a centerfold story on her 25 years of service at KET and even longer commitment to public media journalism. 

In addition to honors from various educational, civic, and community organizations, Renee has earned top honors from the Associated Press and has twice been recognized by Mental Health America for her years-long dedication to examining issues of mental health and opioid addiction.  

In 2022, she was honored with Women Leading Kentucky’s Governor Martha Layne Collins Leadership Award recognizing her trailblazing path and inspiring dedication to elevating important issues across Kentucky.   

In 2018, she co-produced and moderated a 6-part series on youth mental health that was awarded first place in educational content by NETA, the National Educational Telecommunications Association. 

She has been honored by the AKA Beta Gamma Omega Chapter with a Coretta Scott King Spirit of Ivy Award; earned the state media award from the Kentucky Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution in 2019; named a Charles W. Anderson Laureate by the Kentucky Personnel Cabinet in 2019 honoring her significant contributions in addressing socio-economic issues; and was recognized as a “Kentucky Trailblazer” by the University of Kentucky Martin School of Public Policy and Administration during the Wendell H. Ford Lecture Series in 2019. That same year, Shaw was named by The Kentucky Gazette’s inaugural recognition of the 50 most notable women in Kentucky politics and government.  

Renee was bestowed the 2021 Berea College Service Award and was named “Unapologetic Woman of the Year” in 2021 by the Community Action Council.   

In 2015, she received the Green Dot Award for her coverage of domestic violence, sexual assault & human trafficking. In 2014, Renee was awarded the Anthony Lewis Media Award from the KY Department of Public Advocacy for her work on criminal justice reform. Two Kentucky governors, Republican Ernie Fletcher and Democrat Andy Beshear, have commissioned Renee as a Kentucky Colonel for noteworthy accomplishments and service to community, state, and nation.  

A former adjunct media writing professor at Georgetown College, Renee traveled to Cambodia in 2003 to help train emerging journalists on reporting on critical health issues as part of an exchange program at Western Kentucky University. And, she has enterprised stories for national media outlets, the PBS NewsHour and Public News Service.  

Shaw is a 2007 graduate of Leadership Kentucky, a board member of CASA of Lexington, and a longtime member of the Frankfort/Lexington Chapter of The Links Incorporated, an international, not-for-profit organization of women of color committed to volunteer service. She has served on the boards of the Kentucky Historical Society, Lexington Minority Business Expo, and the Board of Governors for the Ohio Valley Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. 

Host Renee Shaw smiling in a green dress with a KET set behind her.

Options for Reforming Police and Policing

Although news about protests against police brutality targeting African Americans has faded from the headlines, the calls for reform continue. The debate often pits community activists against law enforcement, police unions, and policymakers over issues of tools and tactics, accountability, and transparency.

“Community members have a right to have a voice,” says Rebecca Ballard DiLoreto of the Institute for Compassion in Justice, “most particularly when it comes to these questions of discipline, but also when it comes to questions of policy and whether or not we want you to use military force in our town against our citizens, or whether or not we want you to target a particular neighborhood in the manner in which you’re doing it.”

From the viewpoint of officers on the street, Jason Rothermund, immediate past president of the Fraternal Order of Police Bluegrass Lodge 4, says policing only works if the community steps up to work with law enforcement. Despite the recent incidents of Black men and women dying at the hands of police, Rothermund says officers are inherently good people who work to preserve the good in a community.

“Nobody wants those bad actors,” says Rothermund, “but to hold all officers accountable for those specific actions, that’s not a logical argument.”

Still, the videos of lethal police misconduct that lead television newscasts and reverberate through social media have created a negative view of law enforcement, says Lexington Police Chief Lawrence Weathers.

“Whether you think it’s true or not, the perception is real that there’s injustice out there, and as a law enforcement officer, I can’t ignore that. As a Black man, I can never ignore that,” says Weathers. “I have to listen to what people tell me, even if it is their perception because my job is to make sure people feel safe, make sure they’re treated with respect.”

Improving the Culture within Law Enforcement

The recent police-involved killings and the protests that have followed have already fostered self-examination in many departments.

Somerset Police Chief William Hunt says he and his officers are reviewing their policies and training procedures. He says leadership must set a tone that racism is not acceptable and that officers should speak up when they see fellow cops acting improperly.

“You need to tell the truth, nothing else matters,” says Hunt. “When you have supervisors, leaders, chiefs encouraging their officers to do what’s right and to tell the truth, it will go a long way in that culture of that department.”

Then there’s the composition of police forces. Tracie Keesee, co-founder and a senior vice president for the Center for Policing Equity, says departments need to be more diverse to better reflect the communities they serve.

“But it’s not just diversity at the lower levels,” says Keesee. “It’s at every rank where policy is being created, where things are being implemented.”

Others have called for departments to be more selective in the people they recruit. Keesee says screening tests for implicit bias are often suggested as a way to weed out potential bad actors. But she says the issue goes beyond identifying biases. She says the trick is to disrupt underlying biases so they aren’t activated in a high-pressure situation that demands quick decision-making.

DiLoreto acknowledges the challenges officers face on the job. They may have to confront an armed assailant and later help a woman give birth in her car.

“The kind of disposition that’s required most of all,” says DiLoreto, “is a capacity to de-escalate situations and the ability... to take a step back and see the humanity of the other person.”

Raymond Burse, general counsel for the NAACP, agrees that a sense of respect is crucial.

“I would like to change the blue culture to a culture that values everybody’s human life,” says Burse, “and everyone gets judged based on the same rules and regulations and is accountable for them.”

Fostering Transparency and Accountability

Much of the public anger against police stems from officers who aren’t punished or prosecuted even after their misconduct has been caught on video. Weathers says most discipline happens internally, usually out of the public eye, and often as a result of cops issuing complaints against other cops.

“If you make a mistake, you might not get fired, but you’re going to get some kind of punishment,” says Weathers. “If you make another mistake, then we’re going to use progressive discipline.”

If a department punishes an officer, Weather says they must report that to the Kentucky Law Enforcement Council (KLEC). He says if an officer has a formal complaint on file, they cannot take a job with another police department without first getting approval from the council. That independent administrative body is comprised of police chiefs, sheriffs, police union representatives, the state attorney general, the United States attorneys for the eastern and western districts of Kentucky, a mayor, a county judge executive and a citizen-at-large member.

But the system isn’t flawless. Burse says a county sheriff in western Kentucky was elected to his post after having been fired by three other police departments. He also cites an officer hired by the Prospect Police Department despite having a record of misconduct on the Louisville police force. Burse says that individual was fired once the officer’s record came to light.

“Making these disciplinary records public and the public having access to them to know what’s going on is one of the things that needs to happen if we’re going to rebuild confidence in policing,” says Burse.

Hunt says under legislation passed by the General Assembly in 2019, an officer who has an internal investigation on their record can have their KLEC certification revoked if they try to move to a new department.

Still, officers face accusations of protecting their own and staying silent about misconduct. Rothermund rejects such allegations.

“There are good officers out there that are willing to speak up, and I think they’re the majority,” says Rothermund. “I don’t believe that the FOP has provided shade to misconduct in any way, and I think to infer that is insulting to the service that police officers provide every day.”

Reviewing a Range of Police Policies

Reform advocates are also calling for bans on no-knock warrants and chokeholds, an end to qualified immunity for officers, and the creation of civilian review boards. They also want police to examine a range of internal policies from the use of decommissioned military equipment to the targeting of so-called high-crime neighborhoods, which activists say leads to overpolicing of people of color.

In Lexington, Weathers says his department has been selective in the military equipment it has acquired. He says they do have armored vehicles to shield against high-powered weapons, but he says his department only uses those vehicles in active-shooter situations and not for crowd control.

Rothermund says the military-grade gear helps protect officers from the kinds of weapons found on the street today.

“There is a need at times for specialized equipment that the military also uses,” says Rothermund. “We don’t know what we’re walking into and we have to, in order to be successful, have the equipment.”

There’s also a debate about reallocating law enforcement funding to other agencies better suited to addressing social issues like homelessness and mental health concerns. Keesee says police are often called upon to deal with those problems because they are always on duty and can respond quickly.

“We should not be in these spaces, we should never have been in these spaces,” she says. “What the goal and focus should be is making sure that folks are not in crisis in the first place where we have to respond.”

From his perspective, Weathers says police aren’t being asked to do too much, they simply have too few tools and resources to properly respond to the social ills they encounter. He says he welcomes community suggestions on how to improve public safety.

“Our policies have to be living and breathing,” says Weathers. “We must mold them and shape them to what our citizens want, so we want input.”

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