Skip to Main Content

Solving the State Pension Crisis

Bill and his guests discuss public employee pensions. Guests: State Sen. Joe Bowen, R-Owensboro; State Rep. Brent Yonts, D-Greenville; State Rep. Brad Montell, R-Shelbyville; and State Sen. Morgan McGarvey, D-Louisville.
Season 23 Episode 6 Length 56:33 Premiere: 12/14/15

About

Kentucky Tonight

KET’s Kentucky Tonight, hosted by Renee Shaw, brings together an expert panel for in-depth analysis of major issues facing the Commonwealth.

This weekly program features comprehensive discussions with lawmakers, stakeholders and policy leaders that are moderated by award-winning journalist Renee Shaw.

For nearly three decades, Kentucky Tonight has been a source for complete and balanced coverage of the most urgent and important public affairs developments in the state of Kentucky.

Often aired live, viewers are encouraged to participate by submitting questions in real-time via email, Twitter or KET’s online form. Viewers with questions and comments may send an email to kytonight@ket.org or use the contact form. All messages should include first and last name and town or county. The phone number for viewer calls during the program is 800-494-7605.

After the broadcast, Kentucky Tonight programs are available on KET.org and via podcast (iTunes or Android). Files are normally accessible within 24 hours after the television broadcast.

Kentucky Tonight was awarded a 1997 regional Emmy by the Ohio Valley Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. The series was also honored with a 1995 regional Emmy nomination.

To purchase a DVD:
Call 800-945-9167 or email shop@ket.org.


Tune-In

KET Mondays • 8/7 pm

Stream

Watch on KET’s website anytime or through the PBS Video App.

Podcast

The Kentucky Tonight podcast features each episode’s audio for listening.


Renee Shaw is the Director of Public Affairs and Moderator at KET, currently serving as host of KET’s weeknight public affairs program Kentucky Edition, the signature public policy discussion series Kentucky Tonight, the weekly interview series Connections, Election coverage and KET Forums.

Since 2001, Renee has been the producing force behind KET’s legislative coverage that has been recognized by the Kentucky Associated Press and the National Educational Telecommunications Association. Under her leadership, KET has expanded its portfolio of public affairs content to include a daily news and information program, Kentucky Supreme Court coverage, townhall-style forums, and multi-platform program initiatives around issues such as opioid addiction and youth mental health.  

Renee has also earned top awards from the Ohio Valley Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences (NATAS), with three regional Emmy awards. In 2023, she was inducted into the Silver Circle of the NATAS, one of the industry’s highest honors recognizing television professionals with distinguished service in broadcast journalism for 25 years or more.  

Already an inductee into the Kentucky Civil Rights Hall of Fame (2017), Renee expands her hall of fame status with induction into Western Kentucky University’s Hall of Distinguished Alumni in November of 2023.  

In February of 2023, Renee graced the front cover of Kentucky Living magazine with a centerfold story on her 25 years of service at KET and even longer commitment to public media journalism. 

In addition to honors from various educational, civic, and community organizations, Renee has earned top honors from the Associated Press and has twice been recognized by Mental Health America for her years-long dedication to examining issues of mental health and opioid addiction.  

In 2022, she was honored with Women Leading Kentucky’s Governor Martha Layne Collins Leadership Award recognizing her trailblazing path and inspiring dedication to elevating important issues across Kentucky.   

In 2018, she co-produced and moderated a 6-part series on youth mental health that was awarded first place in educational content by NETA, the National Educational Telecommunications Association. 

She has been honored by the AKA Beta Gamma Omega Chapter with a Coretta Scott King Spirit of Ivy Award; earned the state media award from the Kentucky Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution in 2019; named a Charles W. Anderson Laureate by the Kentucky Personnel Cabinet in 2019 honoring her significant contributions in addressing socio-economic issues; and was recognized as a “Kentucky Trailblazer” by the University of Kentucky Martin School of Public Policy and Administration during the Wendell H. Ford Lecture Series in 2019. That same year, Shaw was named by The Kentucky Gazette’s inaugural recognition of the 50 most notable women in Kentucky politics and government.  

Renee was bestowed the 2021 Berea College Service Award and was named “Unapologetic Woman of the Year” in 2021 by the Community Action Council.   

In 2015, she received the Green Dot Award for her coverage of domestic violence, sexual assault & human trafficking. In 2014, Renee was awarded the Anthony Lewis Media Award from the KY Department of Public Advocacy for her work on criminal justice reform. Two Kentucky governors, Republican Ernie Fletcher and Democrat Andy Beshear, have commissioned Renee as a Kentucky Colonel for noteworthy accomplishments and service to community, state, and nation.  

A former adjunct media writing professor at Georgetown College, Renee traveled to Cambodia in 2003 to help train emerging journalists on reporting on critical health issues as part of an exchange program at Western Kentucky University. And, she has enterprised stories for national media outlets, the PBS NewsHour and Public News Service.  

Shaw is a 2007 graduate of Leadership Kentucky, a board member of CASA of Lexington, and a longtime member of the Frankfort/Lexington Chapter of The Links Incorporated, an international, not-for-profit organization of women of color committed to volunteer service. She has served on the boards of the Kentucky Historical Society, Lexington Minority Business Expo, and the Board of Governors for the Ohio Valley Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. 

Host Renee Shaw smiling in a green dress with a KET set behind her.

Public Employee Pensions: Where Will the Money Come From?

What caused Kentucky’s public pension crisis? That’s easy: Insufficient state contributions to the systems in recent years, lower than expected investment returns, fewer current employees paying into the plans, cost-of-living adjustments that weren’t prefunded, etc., etc.

What can be done to fix the public employees and teacher retirement systems? That’s also easy: Pump hundreds of millions of dollars into the plans.

Where’s that money going to come from?

Good question.

Four legislators, including two who served on the panel charged with finding ways to shore up the teachers’ pension plan, appeared on KET’s Kentucky Tonight on Dec. 14 to discuss a range of options for stabilizing the state retirement systems.

Looking for Long-Term Solutions
There are actually six state-level pension plans in the commonwealth, including those for state and county employees, public school teachers, legislators, judges, and state police officers. Of those, the Kentucky Employees Retirement System and the Kentucky State Teachers Retirement System garner the biggest headlines because those plans have the largest unfunded liabilities: nearly $11 billion for KERS and a projected $24 billion for KTRS, according to recent estimates.

“It’s really like a credit card payment,” says Sen. Morgan McGarvey (D-Louisville) of the unfunded liabilities. “It’s due. … and every day we don’t pay it, it gets worse.”

McGarvey, who served on the KTRS Funding Work Group that former Gov. Steve Beshear convened last summer, says if lawmakers did nothing to address the liabilities, KTRS would still remain solvent through 2036. He says the panel determined it would take 30 years to reach an optimal funding level for that system. So while current teacher benefits are secure, McGarvey says legislators must formulate a long-term strategy to pay down the liability so future benefits can be secured.

Phased-in funding for KTRS is only half of the solution for that plan, says Sen. Joe Bowen (R-Owensboro), chair of the Senate State and Local Government Committee and a member of the KTRS Work Group.

“Will the system change for new hires?” says Bowen. “It will have to change so we don’t get into the same shape that we’re in now.”

The 401(k) Debate
One prominent idea is Gov. Matt Bevin’s plan to move new hires into a 401(k)-type plan. But a move to switch teachers to a defined-contribution plan could face opposition in the legislature.

House State Government Committee chairman Rep. Brent Yonts (D-Greenville) likens the 401(k) idea to cutting water and fertilizer to a plant that is supposed to feed retirees. He argues that 401(k) plans wouldn’t offer retired educators enough protection from economic downturns. Yonts says that since teachers aren’t eligible for Social Security, they need the guaranteed benefits of a traditional pension plan.

Sen. Bowen says he’s not talked with Gov. Bevin about his 401(k) proposal. As a fellow Republican, Bowen says the governor should promote the solution that he thinks is best. But he warns that legislators have their own ideas on the matter. Bowen says he along with Rep. Brad Montell (R-Shelbyville) and another lawmaker will propose legislation they’re crafting that they think will offer the best solutions to the KTRS problems.

“I think what we’re going to see moving forward will be perhaps several bills that are introduced using the things that we learned in the working group to address and solve this issue,” says Montell, who is a member of the House State Government Committee.

Benefits and the Inviolable Contract
If changing the pension structure for new hires won’t be easy, it may be impossible for people already in the system. Many of those rules are governed by what’s known as the inviolable contract, which Rep. Yonts calls a sacred trust between employees and elected officials.

“We cannot as a legislature change what has already been put into contract when they were employed,” Yonts explains. “If we do, then we’re subject to being sued and damages awarded to those employees.”

Because of that contract, Rep. Montell says lawmakers can’t reduce benefits that have already been promised, nor can they ask employees to contribute more to their pensions. He says the inviolable contract includes things like changing the number of years of service required to obtain full benefits, or changing the terms of the cost-of-living adjustment.

That leaves lawmakers reviewing benefits that aren’t contractually obligated. Montell says there are three benefits outside of the inviolable contract that cost the state a combined $70 million each year.

One of these benefits covers how teachers can use a portion of their accumulated sick days to boost their income in their final work year before retirement. Montell says lawmakers could change that benefit so that teachers would get cash for their sick days instead of being able to apply them towards their retirement. He acknowledges that change would be unpopular among teachers, especially those late in their careers, but he says the resulting savings could be applied to the unfunded liability in KTRS.

New Sources of Revenue
The legislators agree more revenue will have to be devoted to the pension systems, and they have a range of ideas for generating that cash. Sen. McGarvey says Kentuckians should finally be allowed to vote on a constitutional amendment for expanded gaming, which could include a provision to dedicate a portion of those revenues to the state pensions.

Rep. Montell suggests suspending the prevailing wage law on school-related construction projects, and devoting those savings to teacher retirement.

Rep. Yonts and Sen. Bowen say the state’s tax codes should be overhauled. Yonts says he’s willing to work with Gov. Bevin to update the system. He says one option is to amend the pension income exemption, which he says could generate $335 million in new revenues for the state.

Bowen says lawmakers should eliminate other exemptions that reduce tax receipts, while finding ways to make Kentucky attractive to new businesses.

“A robust economy pays a lot of bills,” says Sen. Bowen. “We need to look at Texas and some of these other states that have that robust economy and model ourselves after them.”

Lawmakers remain divided on the idea of issuing state bonds to shore up the pension plans. In the 2015 General Assembly session, House Speaker Greg Stumbo sponsored a plan to issue $3.3 billion in state bonds to support KTRS. The idea eventually died in the Republican-controlled Senate.

“With the historically low interest rates that were available last session, the thought was not really that you’re doing deficit spending,” says Sen. McGarvey, “but think of it as refinancing your mortgage.”

Republican Sen. Bowen says pension bonds are an option, but one that doesn’t have a good track record. He points to bonding plans that foundered in Illinois, New Jersey, and Detroit. Fellow Republican Rep. Montell says the only reason lawmakers should consider bonding is if that’s the only way the state could afford to pay the actuarially required contribution (ARC).

Stumbo’s bonding proposal is likely to resurface in the 2016 legislative session, and Rep. Yonts says it will probably meet the same fate as last year. While he sees the refinancing of pension debts as a way to save money, Yonts says it will take a collection of cost-saving and revenue-generating measures to come up with the money the retirement systems need.

“So there’s little bits and pieces here and there you can put together and create some cash that will help pay this ARC without doing the bonding,” says Yonts.

Looking to the New Legislative Session
The General Assembly convenes on Jan. 5, and the pension issue will loom large over the biennial budget lawmakers will craft this session. Yonts says it’s time to stop debating the causes of the pension crisis and focus on solutions to solve it.

Sen. McGarvey says lawmakers must attack the unfunded liabilities so they don’t continue to grow, which will ultimately free up money that the state can devote to other necessary projects.

Sen. Bowen and Rep. Montell say the KTRS problems can be solved with the right legislation, and they say those bills will be forthcoming early in the session.

“There’s no way we can pass a two-year budget and not fund these pensions,” says Montell. “We’re going to have to work like grown-ups and come together with this.”

Sponsored by:

Connections host Renee Shaw smiling in a gray suit along with the show logo and a "Check Schedule" button.Connections host Renee Shaw smiling in a gray suit along with the show logo and a "Check Schedule" button.

Season 23 Episodes

U.S. Senate Candidates

S23 E43 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 10/31/16

6th U.S. Congressional District Candidates

S23 E42 Length 56:53 Premiere Date 10/24/16

Countdown to the Election

S23 E41 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 10/17/16

Setting Education Policy

S23 E40 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 10/10/16

Jobs and Wages: Latest Trends

S23 E39 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 10/02/16

The Race for President

S23 E38 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 09/25/16

Forecasting the U.S. Economy

S23 E37 Length 56:34 Premiere Date 09/19/16

Changes to Kentucky's Medicaid

S23 E36 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 09/12/16

U.S. Foreign Policy Issues

S23 E35 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 08/29/16

Impact of Campaign Finance Laws

S23 E34 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 08/22/16

The Electoral College and Politics

S23 E33 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 08/15/16

The Future of Medicaid in Kentucky

S23 E32 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 08/01/16

Previewing the 2016 Election

S23 E31 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 07/10/16

Gun Control vs. 2nd Amendment

S23 E30 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 06/27/16

Debating Immigration Policy

S23 E29 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 06/20/16

Debate Over Jobs and Wages

S23 E27 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 06/06/16

Decoding Kentucky's Primary

S23 E25 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 05/23/16

2016 Primary Election Preview

S23 E24 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 05/16/16

Democratic U.S. Senate Primary

S23 E23 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 05/09/16

Republican U.S. Senate Primary Candidate

S23 E22 Length 26:31 Premiere Date 05/02/16

Republican 1st District Congressional Candidates

S23 E21 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 04/25/16

Democratic 1st District Congressional Candidate

S23 E20 Length 26:31 Premiere Date 04/18/16

Democratic 6th District Congressional Candidates

S23 E19 Length 28:01 Premiere Date 04/11/16

Republican 6th District Congressional Candidates

S23 E17 Length 28:01 Premiere Date 03/28/16

Republican 3rd Congressional District Candidates

S23 E16 Length 28:01 Premiere Date 03/21/16

2016 General Assembly at Midpoint

S23 E15 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 02/29/16

Negotiations on State Budget

S23 E14 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 02/22/16

Crafting New Education Policy

S23 E13 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 02/15/16

Debating the Minimum Wage

S23 E12 Length 56:31 Premiere Date 02/08/16

Assessing the Governor's Budget

S23 E11 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 02/01/16

Felony Records Expungement

S23 E10 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 01/25/16

Right to Work and Prevailing Wage

S23 E9 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 01/18/16

Charter Schools in Kentucky

S23 E8 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 01/11/16

Major Issues Await Legislature

S23 E7 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 01/04/16

Solving the State Pension Crisis

S23 E6 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 12/14/15

Preparing for the 2016 General Assembly

S23 E4 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 11/23/15

Priorities for the State Budget

S23 E3 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 11/16/15

Election Analysis

S23 E2 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 11/09/15

What's at Stake in the 2015 Election?

S23 E1 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 11/02/15

See All Episodes

caret down

TV Schedules

Jump to Recent Airdates

Upcoming

Kentucky Tonight - S31 E3

  • Monday April 22, 2024 8:00 pm ET on KET
  • Monday April 22, 2024 7:00 pm CT on KET
  • Tuesday April 23, 2024 6:03 am ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 23, 2024 5:03 am CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 23, 2024 1:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 23, 2024 12:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 23, 2024 9:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 23, 2024 8:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Wednesday April 24, 2024 1:30 am ET on KET
  • Wednesday April 24, 2024 12:30 am CT on KET
  • Wednesday April 24, 2024 5:00 am ET on KET
  • Wednesday April 24, 2024 4:00 am CT on KET

Kentucky Tonight - S31 E4

  • Monday April 29, 2024 8:00 pm ET on KET
  • Monday April 29, 2024 7:00 pm CT on KET
  • Tuesday April 30, 2024 6:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 30, 2024 5:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 30, 2024 1:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 30, 2024 12:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 30, 2024 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 30, 2024 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Wednesday May 1, 2024 1:00 am ET on KET
  • Wednesday May 1, 2024 12:00 am CT on KET

Kentucky Tonight - S31 E5

  • Monday May 6, 2024 8:00 pm ET on KET
  • Monday May 6, 2024 7:00 pm CT on KET
  • Tuesday May 7, 2024 6:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday May 7, 2024 5:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday May 7, 2024 1:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday May 7, 2024 12:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday May 7, 2024 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday May 7, 2024 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Wednesday May 8, 2024 1:00 am ET on KET
  • Wednesday May 8, 2024 12:00 am CT on KET

Kentucky Tonight - S31 E6

  • Monday May 20, 2024 8:00 pm ET on KET
  • Monday May 20, 2024 7:00 pm CT on KET
Jump to Upcoming Airdates

Recent

Legislative Session Recap - S31 E2

  • Wednesday April 17, 2024 5:00 am ET on KET
  • Wednesday April 17, 2024 4:00 am CT on KET
  • Wednesday April 17, 2024 1:00 am ET on KET
  • Wednesday April 17, 2024 12:00 am CT on KET
  • Tuesday April 16, 2024 9:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 16, 2024 8:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 16, 2024 1:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 16, 2024 12:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 16, 2024 6:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday April 16, 2024 5:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Monday April 15, 2024 8:00 pm ET on KET
  • Monday April 15, 2024 7:00 pm CT on KET

State Budget - S30 E44

  • Wednesday March 27, 2024 1:00 am ET on KET
  • Wednesday March 27, 2024 12:00 am CT on KET
  • Tuesday March 26, 2024 11:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday March 26, 2024 10:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday March 26, 2024 6:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday March 26, 2024 5:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Monday March 25, 2024 8:00 pm ET on KET
  • Monday March 25, 2024 7:00 pm CT on KET
Top

Contact

Explore KET