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Lexington Mayor Linda Gorton

Renee Shaw sits down with Lexington Mayor Linda Gorton to discuss the plans she has for her second term.
Season 18 Episode 14 Length 27:31 Premiere: 01/08/23

Looking Back on First-Term Accomplishments and Looking Ahead to Future Goals

When Linda Gorton won her first term as mayor Lexington in 2018, she garnered 63 percent of the vote.

When it came time to seek reelection last year, Gorton wasn’t certain how she would fare with voters. The nurse-turned-politician who previously served 16 years on the Lexington-Fayette Urban County Council had guided the city through a budget crisis, the COVID-19 pandemic, racial justice protests, and a record number of homicides.

Despite these challenges, Gorton won a second term with a whopping 71 percent of the vote. She says it’s a great honor that her constituents have placed that level of trust in her leadership.

“I had hoped I would do well, I didn’t really expect that well,” says Gorton. “I’ve been around a while so a lot of people know me, and they know how I operate, and what I do, and where my focus is.”

Navigating COVID and Protests

Gorton credits her senior leadership team and community stakeholders for helping her navigate the myriad of issues that the COVID-19 pandemic brought, from school and business closings to maintaining essential public services during a time of incredible uncertainty. Given the historic nature of the pandemic, she says there was no one they could call for advice.

“We had to write the playbook,” says Gorton.

Kentucky’s second-largest city was already dealing with a budget shortfall that required significant cuts in 2019. The financial problems got even worse in 2020. Now Gorton says Lexington is still dealing with after-effects of the pandemic.

“The economy was like a roller coaster – it was terrible,” the mayor says. “Thank goodness for federal [relief] funds because they saved cities.”

Despite COVID lockdowns, the streets of Lexington, like many other cities, erupted in the summer of 2020 with protests against the police-involved killings of George Floyd in Minneapolis and Breonna Taylor in Louisville.

“For me that was real a-ha moment,” says Gorton. “It was a cry for help and for change.”

In response to the public outcry, Gorton created a Commission for Racial Justice and Equality to recommend ways to address systemic racism in Fayette County. Through a series of virtual meetings and town-hall forums, the 70-member commission studied issues ranging from housing and education to health care and policing. Gorton says about half of the commission’s 54 recommendations have been implemented so far.

Addressing Crime, Improving Public Safety

The city has also launched a community violence intervention program to address violent crime in Fayette County. Gorton says overall crime dropped 2 percent from 2021 to 2022, but she says homicides have increased.

“If we don’t look at the root causes and try to intervene in those, we will never make progress,” she says.

That includes tackling problems of poverty, food insecurity, mental health services, and addiction treatment. Gorton says she has also focused on creating more affordable housing and preventing evictions, as well as offender rehabilitation and job training programs.

“For someone in jail who was on a certain path that took them there, if there’s nothing in terms of intervention, when they get released from jail, more than likely they’re going right back to the same path,” says the mayor. “We want to interrupt that.”

Domestic violence prevention is another critical component. Gorton says 13 of the homicides that occurred in 2022 were directly related to domestic violence, which she says has been on the increase since COVID.

“We’ve launched the first phase of a new campaign to educate people on domestic violence,” says the mayor. “Anyone who’s in fear of their life or even just afraid of their partner can call 311 and get help.”

Another effort to address crime in Lexington involves the placement of 25 surveillance cameras throughout the community. Instead of targeting people who jaywalk, speed, or run red lights, Gorton says the automated devices record vehicle license plates and submit the images to a national crime database.

“The data we’re getting we’re stunning,” she says. “It’s a tool that’s helping us find people who are committing crimes, and they’re not lightweight crimes. [It’s] murder suspects, missing persons, violent crimes, stolen vehicles. It’s all of that and more.”

City officials did not disclose the locations of the cameras installed in the pilot phase of the Lexington project. Gorton says they didn’t want criminals to know what streets to avoid. But she says they will release a map of the original locations plus those of 75 additional cameras that will be installed soon.

“They are not only in communities of color, they are widely dispersed,” Gorton says. “They are in places where the community has called in to report crime.”

“I personally think that they will be very successful in helping our officers.” she adds.

The mayor says all of these efforts have helped put the city on a better path to improving policing and public safety, while also helping people avoid resorting to crime and violence.

“It’s not by any means perfect, no city has it down perfect,” says Gorton. “But we’re making progress. That’s what is important.”

Beyond her daily duties, the mayor says she has several big dreams she aspires to achieve during her second term in office. Those include moving ahead on plans for a new city hall, addressing carbon emissions, landing a professional sports team, and celebrating the city’s 250th birthday in 2025.

Sponsored by:

Host Dr. Wayne Tuckson in a dark shirt and gray jacket on the program set with a "Check Schedule" button.Host Dr. Wayne Tuckson in a dark shirt and gray jacket on the program set with a "Check Schedule" button.

Season 18 Episodes

Dr. Monalisa Tailor - Kentucky Medical Association

S18 E18 Length 26:36 Premiere Date 02/05/23

Devine Carama - ONE Lexington

S18 E17 Length 26:31 Premiere Date 01/29/23

Congressman John Yarmuth

S18 E16 Length 26:31 Premiere Date 01/22/23

Former State Rep. Joni Jenkins

S18 E15 Length 26:31 Premiere Date 01/15/23

Lexington Mayor Linda Gorton

S18 E14 Length 27:31 Premiere Date 01/08/23

James Comer and Morgan McGarvey

S18 E13 Length 26:31 Premiere Date 12/18/22

Poet and Playwright Constance Alexander

S18 E12 Length 28:03 Premiere Date 12/11/22

Author Emily Bingham

S18 E11 Length 27:15 Premiere Date 11/20/22

Bill Goodman - Kentucky Humanities

S18 E10 Length 26:33 Premiere Date 11/13/22

Restoring American Democracy

S18 E9 Length 26:33 Premiere Date 11/06/22

Breast Cancer

S18 E8 Length 26:45 Premiere Date 10/30/22

Secretary of State Michael Adams on Election Issues

S18 E7 Length 26:32 Premiere Date 10/23/22

University of Kentucky President Eli Capilouto

S18 E6 Length 27:08 Premiere Date 10/16/22

Darlene Thomas - GreenHouse17

S18 E5 Length 26:57 Premiere Date 10/09/22

Bob Jackson - Murray State University

S18 E4 Length 26:31 Premiere Date 10/02/22

David Adkins - The Council of State Governments

S18 E3 Length 27:41 Premiere Date 09/25/22

Melynda Jamison - CASA of Lexington

S18 E2 Length 26:32 Premiere Date 09/18/22

State Treasurer Allison Ball

S18 E1 Length 26:32 Premiere Date 09/11/22

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Terrance Sullivan

Premiered On: 11/01/2020

Host Renee Shaw speaks with Terrance Sullivan, executive director of the Kentucky Commission on Human Rights. Then, visit a new mural in downtown Lexington that has a message about racial injustice.

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Amy Luttrell and Adria Johnson

Premiered On: 12/13/2020

Renee Shaw speaks with Amy Luttrell, president and CEO of Goodwill Industries of Kentucky, and Adria Johnson, chief impact officer of Metro United Way, about the work of their organizations and how COVID-19 has impacted their operations.

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Caroline Randall Williams

Premiered On: 12/20/2020

Host Renee Shaw talks with Nashville-based writer, educator and activist Caroline Randall Williams about race, identity, Confederate monuments and more. Southern Living magazine named Williams "One of the 50 People Changing the South."

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Celebrating the Urban League of Lexington-Fayette County

Premiered On: 01/17/2021

Renee Shaw speaks with Urban League of Lexington-Fayette County president and CEO P.G. Peeples and former Lexington Herald-Leader columnist and journalist Jacalyn Carfagno who led the effort to document the organization’s success resulting in a release of a 50th anniversary book.

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Dr. Monalisa Tailor - Kentucky Medical Association

Dr. Monalisa Tailor, president of the Kentucky Medical Association, talks about the state of COVID, declining immunization rates and how she is seeking to rejuvenate medical care.

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Aaron Thompson - Kentucky Council on Postsecondary Education

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A Mission to End Institutional Racism in Kentucky

Premiered On: 01/24/2021

Renee Shaw speaks with University of Louisville alums OJ Oleka and Terrance Sullivan, co-founders of AntiRacism Kentucky, a coalition focused on eliminating institutional racism within state and local government policy.

  • Monday February 13, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
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Department of Veterans Affairs Commissioner Keith Jackson

Premiered On: 01/31/2021

Renee Shaw speaks with retired Lt. Col. Keith Jackson, commissioner of the Kentucky Department of Veterans Affairs. They discuss the impact of COVID-19 on VA facilities, the posthumous promotion of African American soldier Col. Charles Young to Brigadier General, and other topics.

  • Tuesday February 14, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
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Christopher 2X

Premiered On: 02/07/2021

Louisville activist Christopher 2X talks about his journey as a former convicted drug dealer who received government pardons for his crimes, to his community work helping young people stay on a better path through early childhood education initiatives.

  • Wednesday February 15, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
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Kentucky Authors - Prisha Hedau; Carly Muetterties and Maddie Shepard

Premiered On: 03/21/2021

In honor of Women’s History Month, Renee Shaw talks to Kentucky student and author Prisha Hedau, who published her book PANDEMIC 2020 last fall, written when she was just 9-years-old. Next, former social studies teachers Carly Muetterties and Maddie Shepard talk about their book Bluegrass Bold: Stories of Kentucky Women for use in Kentucky classrooms. The book highlights the contributions of more than 30 Kentucky women.

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The Rise of Anti-Asian Violence

Premiered On: 03/28/2021

Renee Shaw talks with Representative Nima Kulkarni, Kentucky's only Asian-American legislator and writer, activist, and social entrepreneur Mae Suramek about the increase of harassment and violence against Asian American and Pacific Islander communities.

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Connections

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EKU Criminal Justice Professor Pete Kraska

Premiered On: 04/04/2021

Renee Shaw talks with Pete Kraska, Ph.D., an Eastern Kentucky University criminology professor, author and leading scholar on police militarization. Kraska discusses a new Kentucky law that limits the use of no-knock warrants and its impact on communities of color.

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Vaccine Equity and Hesitancy

Premiered On: 04/25/2021

Host Renee Shaw talks to community leaders and health equity experts about vaccine equity and the root causes of hesitancy in communities of color.

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Cynthia Knapek - Leadership Louisville Center

Premiered On: 05/02/2021

Renee Shaw talks with Cynthia Knapek, president of the Leadership Louisville Center about leadership, diversity and inclusion and the future of work.

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Sarah Taylor Vanover - Early Childhood Education

Premiered On: 05/16/2021

Renee Shaw talks with early childhood education expert Sarah Taylor Vanover, Ed.D., about why America's childcare industry is on the verge of collapse and what can be done to save it. Vanover is the author of "America's Child-Care Crisis: Rethinking an Essential Business."

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Connections

Premiered On: 08/08/2021

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Connections

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Restaurateur and Chef Ouita Michel

Premiered On: 06/06/2021

Renee Shaw talks with restaurateur and culinary artist Ouita Michel about her first cookbook, Just a Few Miles South: Timeless Recipes from Our Favorite Places, which features some favorite recipes of her restaurant patrons.

  • Monday February 27, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
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Psychologist Julie Cerel

Premiered On: 06/13/2021

Renee Shaw and psychologist Julie Cerel, Ph.D., a professor in the University of Kentucky College of Social Work, discuss grief and mental health challenges from the COVID-19 pandemic.

  • Tuesday February 28, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
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The Demands and Rewards of Fatherhood

Premiered On: 06/20/2021

Renee Shaw talks with David Cozart, the director of the nonprofit Lexington Leadership Foundation Fatherhood Initiative, about fatherhood engagement and Steve Adams, author of Now What? A Divorced Dad's Guide to Parenting Excellence that helps fathers effectively co-parent.

  • Wednesday March 1, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
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Connections

Premiered On: 07/17/2021

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Kentucky Public Health Commissioner Dr. Steven Stack

Premiered On: 07/11/2021

Renee Shaw talks with Dr. Steven Stack, commissioner of the Kentucky Department for Public Health, about the increase in COVID-19 cases, vaccines, variants and if a change in mitigation recommendations is on the horizon.

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Restoring American Democracy

Carolyn Lukensmeyer and Stephen B. Heintz of the Commission on the Practice of Democratic Citizenship talk about the organization's bipartisan report, Our Common Purpose: Reinventing American Democracy for the 21st Century, which includes six strategies and 31 recommendations to help the country emerge a more resilient democracy by 2026, the nation's 250th anniversary.

  • Sunday March 5, 2023 4:30 pm ET on KETKY
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Kathy Werking; Jim Embry

Premiered On: 07/18/2021

Renee Shaw talks with Kathy Werking, executive director of On the Move Art Studio that provides free art classes to kids in underserved Central Kentucky neighborhoods. Then, Renee talks with community activist Jim Embry, who, along with others, formed a collaborative called Phoenix Rising Lex to preserve the contributions of African American horsemen like three-time Derby winner Isaac Murphy.

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Filmmaker Sarah Burns

Premiered On: 09/19/2021

Renee Shaw talks with filmmaker Sarah Burns about her new documentary Muhammad Ali, a six-year project that offers viewers a multifaceted look at Louisville's most famous son who went on to become heavyweight champion of the world as well as one of the world's most charismatic and controversial figures.

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Whitney Austin - Reducing Gun Violence

Premiered On: 09/26/2021

Renee Shaw talks with Whitney Austin, who narrowly survived a shooting at a Cincinnati bank three years ago. Now, she's the founder of Whitney/Strong, an organization dedicated to forging common-sense, bipartisan solutions to reducing gun violence.

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Rufus Friday

Premiered On: 10/10/2021

After more than three decades in the newspaper industry, Rufus Friday talks about his new role as executive director of The Hope Center, Inc. and One Parent Scholar House, which provides comprehensive services to the homeless and those at risk. Friday is a former president and publisher of the Lexington Herald-Leader.

  • Thursday March 9, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
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Devine Carama

Premiered On: 10/17/2021

Renee Shaw speaks with hip hop artist, community activist, and motivational speaker Devine Carama about his appointment as director of One Lexington, a program that mobilizes city government and community resources against violence and other topics.

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Inclusivity in Fashion - Frankie Lewis; RaeShanda Johnson - S15 E13

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Devine Carama - ONE Lexington - S18 E17

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  • Wednesday February 1, 2023 4:30 am ET on KET
  • Wednesday February 1, 2023 3:30 am CT on KET
  • Sunday January 29, 2023 6:00 pm ET on KET2
  • Sunday January 29, 2023 5:00 pm CT on KET2
  • Sunday January 29, 2023 4:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday January 29, 2023 3:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday January 29, 2023 12:00 pm ET on KET
  • Sunday January 29, 2023 11:00 am CT on KET

Dayna Seelig - S15 E12

  • Friday January 27, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Friday January 27, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Friday January 27, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Friday January 27, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Friday January 27, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Friday January 27, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Rachael Denhollander - S15 E11

  • Thursday January 26, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Thursday January 26, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Thursday January 26, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Thursday January 26, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Thursday January 26, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Thursday January 26, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Beth Silvers and Sarah Stewart Holland - S15 E10

  • Wednesday January 25, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 25, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 25, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 25, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Alice Allison Dunnigan - Pioneering Journalist - S15 E9

  • Tuesday January 24, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 24, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 24, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 24, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 24, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 24, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Terry Brooks - Kentucky Youth Advocates - S15 E6

  • Monday January 23, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Monday January 23, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Monday January 23, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Monday January 23, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Monday January 23, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Monday January 23, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Former Congressman John Yarmuth - S18 E16

  • Sunday January 29, 2023 8:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday January 29, 2023 7:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Saturday January 28, 2023 4:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Saturday January 28, 2023 3:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 25, 2023 4:30 am ET on KET
  • Wednesday January 25, 2023 3:30 am CT on KET
  • Sunday January 22, 2023 6:00 pm ET on KET2
  • Sunday January 22, 2023 5:00 pm CT on KET2
  • Sunday January 22, 2023 4:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday January 22, 2023 3:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday January 22, 2023 12:00 pm ET on KET
  • Sunday January 22, 2023 11:00 am CT on KET

Pastor Edward Palmer - Racial Bias and Juvenile Justice Reform - S15 E2

  • Friday January 20, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Friday January 20, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Friday January 20, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Friday January 20, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Friday January 20, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Friday January 20, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Mike Runyon and Sherita Miller; Wendy Kobler - S14 E35

  • Thursday January 19, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Thursday January 19, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Thursday January 19, 2023 2:11 pm ET on KETKY
  • Thursday January 19, 2023 1:11 pm CT on KETKY
  • Thursday January 19, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Thursday January 19, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Brent Hutchinson; Christine Thompson - Education - S14 E32

  • Wednesday January 18, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 18, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 18, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 18, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 18, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 18, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Education in Rural Eastern Kentucky - S14 E27

  • Tuesday January 17, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 17, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 17, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 17, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 17, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 17, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Joshua A. Douglas - Voting Rights Reform - S14 E25

  • Monday January 16, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Monday January 16, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Monday January 16, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Monday January 16, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Monday January 16, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Monday January 16, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Former State Rep. Joni Jenkins - S18 E15

  • Sunday January 22, 2023 8:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday January 22, 2023 7:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Saturday January 21, 2023 4:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Saturday January 21, 2023 3:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 18, 2023 4:30 am ET on KET
  • Wednesday January 18, 2023 3:30 am CT on KET
  • Sunday January 15, 2023 6:00 pm ET on KET2
  • Sunday January 15, 2023 5:00 pm CT on KET2
  • Sunday January 15, 2023 4:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday January 15, 2023 3:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday January 15, 2023 12:00 pm ET on KET
  • Sunday January 15, 2023 11:00 am CT on KET

Colene Elridge - S14 E23

  • Friday January 13, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Friday January 13, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Friday January 13, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Friday January 13, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Friday January 13, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Friday January 13, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Marcie Timmerman - Mental Health and Wellness - S13 E43

  • Thursday January 12, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Thursday January 12, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Thursday January 12, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Thursday January 12, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Tiffany Manuel - Affordable Housing - S13 E42

  • Wednesday January 11, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 11, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 11, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 11, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 11, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 11, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Shining a Spotlight on Epilepsy - S13 E35

  • Tuesday January 10, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 10, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 10, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 10, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 10, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday January 10, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Criminal Justice Reform - Cherise Fanno Burdeen - S13 E34

  • Monday January 9, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Monday January 9, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Monday January 9, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Monday January 9, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Monday January 9, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Monday January 9, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY

Lexington Mayor Linda Gorton - S18 E14

  • Sunday January 15, 2023 8:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday January 15, 2023 7:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Saturday January 14, 2023 4:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Saturday January 14, 2023 3:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Wednesday January 11, 2023 4:30 am ET on KET
  • Wednesday January 11, 2023 3:30 am CT on KET
  • Sunday January 8, 2023 6:00 pm ET on KET2
  • Sunday January 8, 2023 5:00 pm CT on KET2
  • Sunday January 8, 2023 4:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday January 8, 2023 3:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday January 8, 2023 12:00 pm ET on KET
  • Sunday January 8, 2023 11:00 am CT on KET

Bob Jackson - Murray State University - S18 E4

  • Sunday January 8, 2023 8:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday January 8, 2023 7:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Saturday January 7, 2023 4:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Saturday January 7, 2023 3:30 pm CT on KETKY

Dr. Donna Grigsby - S13 E28

  • Friday January 6, 2023 10:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Friday January 6, 2023 9:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Friday January 6, 2023 2:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Friday January 6, 2023 1:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Friday January 6, 2023 5:30 am ET on KETKY
  • Friday January 6, 2023 4:30 am CT on KETKY
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