Skip to Main Content

Diane Rehm and Ann Patchett

NPR host Diane Rehm discusses her book, On My Own, about reconstructing her life after the death of her husband of 54 years. She is interviewed by author Ann Patchett.
Season 18 Episode 3 Length 56:32 Premiere: 04/18/16

Great Conversations: Diane Rehm

NPR host Diane Rehm recalled when her husband made the decision to end his life.

Her husband, John, had suffered from Parkinson’s disease for eight years, had lost 50 pounds, and had moved into assisted living when he announced his wishes to his family and doctor.

“And John said, I am ready to die,” Rehm recalled. “I can no longer feed myself. I can no longer stand. I can no longer walk. I am living in indignity and I know the path of this disease will take me even farther into indignity and I am ready to die.”

Rehm recounts his decision to hasten his death by refusing food, water, and medication in her latest memoir, “On My Own.” She discussed her life and her advocacy for death with dignity with author Ann Patchett as part of the University of Louisville’s Kentucky Author Forum. The program was taped for KET’s Great Conversations in March at the Kentucky Center in Louisville.

Early losses

Born in Washington, D.C., to Arab immigrants, Diane Rehm lost her own parents early in life. Her mother had been ill for some time, and Rehm learned from the family doctor that her mother would die. Her father forbade her from telling her mother that she knew.

“I knew that my mother wanted me to see me married to an Arab before she died. I knew that,” Rehm said. So at 19 I was married to an Arab man, a family friend.”

Her mother died two months later, and her father died 11 months later of a broken heart, Rehm said.

“And the first thing I did because I was finally free to make a decision on my own, is to get a divorce,” she said. “He was a kind man; he was a nice man. I’m still in touch with him. But he thought he was marrying his mother. And he was not.”

Rehm, who trained to be a secretary as her father wanted, took a new job at the State Department, which allowed her to see a wider world, she said. “I started reading books, for the first time, really. So one day on my desk at State Department were three books: ‘The Essays of Alfred North Whitehead,’ ‘The Brothers Karamazov,’ and Somerset Maugham’s ‘Of Human Bondage.’

“And in walks a young man, tall, built like a football player, with a crew cut, a lawyer, named John Rehm, who was absolutely fascinated that I, a secretary, had these books on my desk. And he was wondering why. And he did work for my boss. And so we got to talking about those books.”

The Rehms were married for 54 years. Patchett read a passage from Rehm’s book about their marriage. “There’s a quote in the book that says, “John became my teacher. There was no question that I could ask him that he couldn’t answer. He loved teaching me,’” Patchett said. “That is a really specific, beautiful and dangerous dynamic. Do you want to talk about that?”

“Well, I think it was beautiful, and it did become somewhat dangerous later,” Rehm said.

“I think those are two interesting words you’ve chosen. It was beautiful because his interest was global–his interest in music, his interest in literature, in art.”

Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood

In her 30-year radio career, Rehm said one of her favorite guests was Fred Rogers of “Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood.”

“I believe that Mr. Rogers was one of the great teachers of our time. He taught not only children, but adults, kindness, thoughtfulness, tolerance for oneself and one’s shortcomings, understanding of other people. He was fabulous.

“So, one November I had Mr. Rogers on. … And all of a sudden, I don’t know why I asked him this, Ann, but it’s sort of the way I like to let my instincts go at times. And I said to him, Mr. Rogers, do you ever get sad? And he said, oh yes, I do. And I said, what do you do when you get sad? And he said I play the piano.

“And he said, I think I’ll be playing the piano a lot today. And I said, well, why are you sad? And it was such a profound answer that I couldn’t follow it up. He said well, my stomach hurts. And I could not go further. I could not say to him well, why did your stomach hurt?

“He was dead three months later. Mine was the last live interview he did.”

‘I am absolutely sure’

Rehm said she and her husband had talked about their end of life wishes and promised each other they would help each other die. His parents had each committed suicide.

“You mention that in the book, but without detail,” Patchett said.

John Rehm’s father, who operated a small farm by himself, developed diabetic retinopathy. “And when he could no longer see, he knew he could no longer live on the farm by himself,” she said. He took his own life.

“John’s mother lived to be 92, but because her hip and back were so bad, and she refused to have any kind of surgery. She took her own life at 92,” she said. “So this was around us.”

“And something that in his family there was a sense of control about,” Patchett said.

“Absolutely,” Rehm said. “And that’s what he expected for himself.”

When John Rehm’s doctor said it was not legal or ethical in the state of Maryland for him to help a patient die, he told them the only option was for John to refuse food, medication, and water.

“When we all left John’s room that day, I came back the next morning not knowing what decision John would make,” she said. She asked if he was OK, and he revealed he had not had water, food or medication, and he felt great.

“And I said are you sure you want to do this? And he said I am absolutely sure. And he was fine for two days. But at the end of the second day, he went to sleep. And for the next eight days, he stayed in that situation. I was there the whole time.”

The End of Life Conversation

Rehm said she is making it her cause in life to urge people to talk within their family about their end of life wishes.

“We do not want to talk about death, even as it is as much a part of our lives as birth. And we don’t talk about it. So I’ve written this memoir not only talking about the difficulty beyond John’s death and widowhood, but really urging people to gather into family groups, neighborhood groups, friendship groups” to discuss end of life wishes.

She said she supports improving palliative care for people who choose to remain alive as long as possible. “That should be your choice,” she said. “At the same time, if I am sick and I know that I have a choice between palliative care, more chemotherapy, more radiation, or choice of dying, I am going to choose death with dignity.

“I shocked, I think, some television viewers on a program not long ago, by saying – and I don’t mean to shock you – if I suffer a heart attack, if I suffer a stroke, I am now 79. I will be 80 in September. … I’ve had a fabulous life. I will not call 911. I do not wish to go to a hospital to be intubated, to die in a sterile room with no one but doctors and nurses surrounding me.”

Patchett asked Rehm what would happen if neighbors or bystanders called 911. “What you have to make yourself ready for,” Patchett said, “is someone going to drag you into the back of an ambulance—“

“Not me.” Rehm said. She recalled a recent sore throat and cold chill she suffered on her book tour. Medics were called, but Rehm refused to be taken to the hospital.

As it turned out, she was sick for three weeks with the flu. “But what I’m telling you again: You’ve got to push against what you don’t want.”

She encouraged younger adults to begin the conversation with aging parents about their wishes for the end of life. “Our generation is going to be the largest portion of the population before you know it. And we’ve got to think about – I’m telling you, nursing homes are not where you want to be.”

“Can I say that the best place that I can think of to begin this [end of life] conversation is to have people read your book?” said Patchett. “Because I think that your book is so full of contradiction and doubt, and love and loss, and life and grief, and it’s exactly the way it is. It’s not just, I’m settled. It’s confusion and questioning and grappling – which is what you do on your show day after day. … I think it’s a beautiful beginning for everyone’s conversation.”

Sponsored by:

Season 18 Episodes

Joe Nocera and Buzz Bissinger

S18 E4 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 05/23/16

Diane Rehm and Ann Patchett

S18 E3 Length 56:32 Premiere Date 04/18/16

E.J. Dionne and James Fallows

S18 E2 Length 56:33 Premiere Date 03/21/16

John Irving and Sam Tanenhaus

S18 E1 Length 56:32 Premiere Date 12/07/15

See All Episodes

caret down

TV Schedules

Jump to Recent Airdates

Upcoming

Geraldine Brooks and Jacki Lyden - S12 E3

Geraldine Brooks, the Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist and journalist, talks with journalist and author Jacki Lyden about Brooks' most recent novel, "Horse," which chronicles the story of a thoroughbred named Lexington and the Black groom who raised him. Recorded at the University of Louisville Kentucky Author Forum. A 2020 KET Production.

  • Sunday April 28, 2024 5:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday April 28, 2024 4:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Sunday April 28, 2024 1:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday April 28, 2024 12:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday April 28, 2024 10:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday April 28, 2024 9:00 pm CT on KETKY

Rosanne Cash and Nick Spitzer - S14 E1

Premiered On: 10/23/2011

Grammy-winner Rosanne Cash discusses her book, "Composed: A Memoir", a self-portrait and testament to the power of art, tradition and love to transform a life. She is interviewed by Nick Spitzer, producer and host of public radio's "American Routes". The interview was recorded at the University of Louisville Kentucky Author Forum. A 2011 KET Production.

  • Sunday May 5, 2024 5:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday May 5, 2024 4:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Sunday May 5, 2024 1:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday May 5, 2024 12:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday May 5, 2024 10:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday May 5, 2024 9:00 pm CT on KETKY

Renee Fleming with Richard Powers - S23 E4

Acclaimed soprano Renee Fleming discusses her book, "Music and Mind: Harnessing the Arts for Health and Wellness," which contains essays from preeminent experts about the powerful impacts of music on health, with Pulitzer Prize-winning writer Richard Powers, author of "The Overstory." Recorded at the University of Louisville Kentucky Author Forum.

  • Sunday May 5, 2024 2:00 pm ET on KET
  • Sunday May 5, 2024 1:00 pm CT on KET
  • Thursday May 9, 2024 4:00 am ET on KET
  • Thursday May 9, 2024 3:00 am CT on KET
  • Sunday May 12, 2024 5:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday May 12, 2024 4:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Sunday May 12, 2024 1:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday May 12, 2024 12:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday May 12, 2024 10:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday May 12, 2024 9:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Tuesday May 14, 2024 1:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Tuesday May 14, 2024 12:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Thursday May 23, 2024 1:00 am ET on KET
  • Thursday May 23, 2024 12:00 am CT on KET
  • Sunday May 26, 2024 5:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday May 26, 2024 4:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Sunday May 26, 2024 1:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday May 26, 2024 12:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday May 26, 2024 10:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday May 26, 2024 9:00 pm CT on KETKY

Michio Kaku and James Canton - S14 E3

Premiered On: 03/25/2012

Futurist Michio Kaku, a theoretical physicist, tenured professor, co-creator of the string field theory, and author of "Physics of the Future: How Science Will Shape Human Destiny and Our Daily Lives by the Year 2100", is interviewed by James Canton, global futurist, social scientist, author, and CEO and chairman of the Institute for Global Futures. The interview was recorded at the University of Louisville Kentucky Author Forum. A 2012 KET Production.

  • Sunday May 19, 2024 5:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday May 19, 2024 4:00 am CT on KETKY
  • Sunday May 19, 2024 1:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday May 19, 2024 12:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday May 19, 2024 10:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday May 19, 2024 9:00 pm CT on KETKY
Jump to Upcoming Airdates

Recent

Maggie Haberman and Laura Coates - S12 E2

  • Sunday April 21, 2024 10:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday April 21, 2024 9:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday April 21, 2024 1:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday April 21, 2024 12:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday April 21, 2024 5:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday April 21, 2024 4:00 am CT on KETKY

Josh Chin with Evan Osnos - S12 E1

  • Sunday April 14, 2024 10:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday April 14, 2024 9:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday April 14, 2024 1:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday April 14, 2024 12:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday April 14, 2024 5:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday April 14, 2024 4:00 am CT on KETKY

Admiral James Stavridis and Melissa Block - S11 E2

  • Sunday April 7, 2024 10:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday April 7, 2024 9:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday April 7, 2024 1:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday April 7, 2024 12:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday April 7, 2024 5:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday April 7, 2024 4:00 am CT on KETKY

Dani Shapiro and Robert Siegel - S11 E1

  • Sunday March 31, 2024 10:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday March 31, 2024 9:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday March 31, 2024 1:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday March 31, 2024 12:30 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday March 31, 2024 5:00 am ET on KETKY
  • Sunday March 31, 2024 4:00 am CT on KETKY

David McCraw and Chuck Rosenberg - S10 E5

  • Sunday March 24, 2024 10:00 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday March 24, 2024 9:00 pm CT on KETKY
  • Sunday March 24, 2024 1:30 pm ET on KETKY
  • Sunday March 24, 2024 12:30 pm CT on KETKY
Top

Explore KET